Curse

Tyla · Aug 28, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Is everyone in your guild agreeing that spamming pre-protects is bad because wand attacking is better than pre-protecting? Why such a big emphasis on wand damage all of a sudden?

I don't recall anyone bringing up the wanding topic except for me. The reason I would take time out of pre-protecting when it isn't needed for autoattacking is because extra damage is extra damage, and that is my reason.

Quote:

My impression of TAM just dropped a notch...You are risking your guild's reputation on this?

Look, I hate to be doing this, but the time you said that Enfeebling Blood isn't worth it because it "only works against physical", and the time I had to quote the exact same post you responded to because the answer lied in that post made a bad impression on yourself.

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Wanding in HM is so insignificant that I am honestly surprised you even brought it up, and keep defending wanding to be better than spamming pre-prots in an infinite energy build.

You don't always need the prots, though. Even if you have unlimited energy, you might aswell be making even the smallest contribution to your damage when you don't have to use the skills.

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All it takes is one of my pre-prots to work once and it would beat ALL the time that you have invested to wand (i.e. "tickle") HM monsters to death.

Wait, so now you are assuming I just wand instead of cast when necesary?

Quote:

Maybe because we are humans and we do make mistakes sometimes? Furthermore if I can gain life+energy everytime I pre-prot, why not? Why is it considered bad?

When you are at full life or energy, or you don't lose but gain energy through casting, what is the point in the need of it? Just because you can make one mistake doesn't cut it, after the second cast you should be alright as far as I'm concerned, and if regardless of mistakes or not, Aegis can slightly cover that for itself.

Quote:

Just because I dont NEED infinite energy at all times, doesn't mean infinite energy is BAD. I dont need to wand too, so by your definition wanding is also bad.

When you have max energy and everything's fine in the current time, you might aswell make even the smallest contribution to damage. You don't need to wand but it helps, but with energy once your energy is max and unneeded at the current moment, you've got nothing to gain in that part.

Snow Bunny · Aug 28, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Where did I say spamming is necessary? Is everyone in your guild agreeing that spamming pre-protects is bad because wand attacking is better than pre-protecting? Why such a big emphasis on wand damage all of a sudden?

My impression of TAM just dropped a notch...You are risking your guild's reputation on this?

DarkSpirit, you make traditionally sloppy arguments, but go along with me, see if you can keep up.

Tyla's gone off on some tangent that's much too odd for me to decipher, so just go along with me.

Your E-Renewal Ele has to use what, 3 enchants to guarantee infinite energy? What are you going to do, maintain bonds on everyone? Sure, ok, maintain bonds on everyone, because you have the energy to do it. What're you going to do, throw Shield Guardian around, spam RoF and PS on recharge and throw GDW on everything that moves?

You could spread that out over an imbagon, an orders necromancer, and a monk.

Here's a better question - What do you need infinite energy for?

Damage - Mesmers using CoP and buffed physicals beat Ele damage
Support - The imbagon using EBSoH, SY!, and TNTF! should be all you need. An orders necromancer should have GDW.
Healing - Shield Guardian is pretty bad, and I'd prefer a good monk using RoF/Infuse well as opposed to some ER Ele using them nilly-willy.

On numerous occasions we have tried an ER Elementalist. No combination of support and/or healing could justify its taking up a spot in one of our groups. In fact, on my personal request, we took ER Eles because of the virtues you have extolled in them. Our Elite Area clears were definitively slower with an essentially unnecessary character.

kazjun · Aug 29, 2008, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Word of Healing has no requirement to hit it's primary heal.

Patient Spirit only requires you to wait 2 seconds, but you can also pre-patient.

You do understand that spirits are dead in like 1 hit from your common HM monster, though right?

And who said you can't hybrid on your N/Mo? The only tradeoff is Divine Favour bonus for infinite energy.

As for spamming, you don't need the skills all the time. Just use it when needed. There are only a few exceptions for spamming.

WoH hits for about 120 unconditional and 200 under 50%, and is elite. Spiritlight hits for about 150 always and is not elite, and only needs you to have a spirit about that you can drop BEHIND the party, around a corner or blocked by terrain that monsters are too stupid to get by. Not drop at your feet so it's right there when the monsters run into your backline. You should be able to mop most mobs up before you need to place another spirit.

And pre-patient ain't exactly a precise or on demand heal is it?

And sure, you could hybrid a N/Mo, but if your going to stick heal AND prot duties all on the same char, you may as well make a monk and get the most bang for your buck. A N/Mo healer can work since you can specialise it and match most other pure heal builds. Pure prot or hybrid isn't as good as can be achieved by monks. Cause for prot, it's timing and target that's important. As you say, spamming isn't needed so the trade off between DF and SR isn't so cut and dried.

DarkSpirit · Aug 29, 2008, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I don't recall anyone bringing up the wanding topic except for me. The reason I would take time out of pre-protecting when it isn't needed for autoattacking is because extra damage is extra damage, and that is my reason.

Look, I hate to be doing this, but the time you said that Enfeebling Blood isn't worth it because it "only works against physical", and the time I had to quote the exact same post you responded to because the answer lied in that post made a bad impression on yourself.

You don't always need the prots, though. Even if you have unlimited energy, you might aswell be making even the smallest contribution to your damage when you don't have to use the skills.

That so-called contribution is so miniscule as to be insignificant.

Quote:

Wait, so now you are assuming I just wand instead of cast when necesary?

When you are at full life or energy, or you don't lose but gain energy through casting, what is the point in the need of it? Just because you can make one mistake doesn't cut it, after the second cast you should be alright as far as I'm concerned, and if regardless of mistakes or not, Aegis can slightly cover that for itself.

When you have max energy and everything's fine in the current time, you might aswell make even the smallest contribution to damage. You don't need to wand but it helps, but with energy once your energy is max and unneeded at the current moment, you've got nothing to gain in that part.

What makes you think you would always be in max energy in a energy limited build?

I would rather pre-protect when I have the energy to do so, and gain health and energy in return by doing so. Than to spend my time wanding insignificantly.

Why do you keep pushing wanding above pre-protecting?

Jeydra · Aug 29, 2008, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

DarkSpirit, you make traditionally sloppy arguments, but go along with me, see if you can keep up.

Tyla's gone off on some tangent that's much too odd for me to decipher, so just go along with me.

Your E-Renewal Ele has to use what, 3 enchants to guarantee infinite energy? What are you going to do, maintain bonds on everyone? Sure, ok, maintain bonds on everyone, because you have the energy to do it. What're you going to do, throw Shield Guardian around, spam RoF and PS on recharge and throw GDW on everything that moves?

You could spread that out over an imbagon, an orders necromancer, and a monk.

Here's a better question - What do you need infinite energy for?

Damage - Mesmers using CoP and buffed physicals beat Ele damage
Support - The imbagon using EBSoH, SY!, and TNTF! should be all you need. An orders necromancer should have GDW.
Healing - Shield Guardian is pretty bad, and I'd prefer a good monk using RoF/Infuse well as opposed to some ER Ele using them nilly-willy.

On numerous occasions we have tried an ER Elementalist. No combination of support and/or healing could justify its taking up a spot in one of our groups. In fact, on my personal request, we took ER Eles because of the virtues you have extolled in them. Our Elite Area clears were definitively slower with an essentially unnecessary character.

Since you present sensible points (unlike Tyla), I'll respond.

Take your team as an example. 4 physicals, one Orders, one imbagon, 2 Monks. The obvious person to swap out for an Elementalist ER healer would be the Prot Monk. Who else? The Elementalist healer spams prots with some heals. The person whose role is closest to this is obviously the Monk.

Then look at the situation after making this switch. How is it possible that your elite area clears be slower with an Elementalist ER healer instead of a Prot Monk? Unless you are claiming that the Prot Monk is somehow capable of dealing significant damage (wanding? Lol), the only way you might be slower with an Elementalist instead of a Monk is that the Elementalist isn't protting or healing as effectively, and people die. The next question would be: why aren't these prots and heals as effective? Look at the points you raised. You said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Shield Guardian is pretty bad, and I'd prefer a good monk using RoF/Infuse well as opposed to some ER Ele using them nilly-willy.

We have:

1. Shield Guardian is pretty bad. If you think it is pretty bad even if you have infinite energy, then simply sub something more useful in.
2. I'd prefer a good Monk using RoF / Infuse well as opposed to some ER Ele using them nilly-willy. Then get a good Elementalist who uses RoF and Infuse well.

So why is the Elementalist healer less effective?

Mr Emu · Aug 29, 2008, 03:26 AM // 03:26

1. Tyla, an ele is just as capable of wanding as a monk. If you have all the prots up that you want up, then you can feel free to wand instead of using the huge time advantage that you have gained. The problem here is if an enemy group splits and goes for 2 squishies, only one can be saved between the casts and aftercasts of multiple skills, but if you used that time to preprot a good portion of your party, at least one of the two targets should already be covered. That puts a traditional prot at 1 dead, and an ER with a full party.

2. The ER ele can actually contribute a speed advantage. This is simply because it can handle a larger aggro with more prots. Plus if the aggro spills off a hard target, you still have plenty of juice to keep everyone up.

3. The most common weakness of the ER build so far has been party healing. There are two options here.
-Breath for moderate party healing
-Mindbender+heal party on a heal oriented bar. A prot ele wouldn't have the atts for a strong HP and 1/4 casts don't take advantage of mindbender.

Snow Bunny · Aug 29, 2008, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

So why is the Elementalist healer less effective?

See....we use only a single monk if possible. It's only impossible to do so when there's hex/condition overload.

Furthermore, I'd prefer another monk to have another, more useful elite in that circumstance, such as Restore Condition or Divert Hexes.

You can't powerheal through Migraine with RoF and Shield Guardian. A good monk will DH it and voila!

An HB monk is much preferred in elite areas to the ER Ele - the heals needed and the speed required exceed the ability of the ER-Ele. If it's a place where a WoH can be used, then the only reason we'd take another monk is for the above reason. To take an ER Ele in addition will certainly slow it down.

The only situation I can see the ER being usefull is in some of the -15 degen areas like in Urgoz. But even then, sprinting up and whacking the plant eliminates that threat in a hurry.

If you have terrible monks, take the ER Ele. If you have good monks, take monks. If you have great monks (me

) take 1 and trust in the monks, some support on the orders, and the imbagon.

The only point to infinite energy is to use spells as much as possible. So if you aren't spamming there's no reason you shouldn't take the primary profession to get the extra bit of spec into that attribute

Jeydra · Aug 29, 2008, 04:27 AM // 04:27

So now we have ...

We use only a single Monk if possible. So use only a single ER Elementalist if possible. It's only impossible to do so when there's hex / condition overload, too (or when your party stands in AoE).

Furthermore, I'd prefer another monk to have another, more useful elite in that circumstance, such as Restore Condition or Divert Hexes. Draw Conditions goes some way to replacing Restore Condition, while Divert Hexes can be semi-replaced by Holy Veil. I'll grant that RC > Draw and Divert > Holy Veil, but Divert Hexes especially is energy intensive and it alone cannot keep 8 players clean against hex overload, either.

You can't powerheal through Migraine with RoF and Shield Guardian. A good monk will DH it and voila! Yes you can. The thing about the ER bar is that every single heal / prot spell is 1/4 second cast. Ether Renewal itself does not take longer to cast than Divert Hexes. Dazed and Migraine are less of a threat to the Elementalist than to a Monk.

An HB monk is much preferred in elite areas to the ER Ele - the heals needed and the speed required exceed the ability of the ER-Ele. If it's a place where a WoH can be used, then the only reason we'd take another monk is for the above reason. To take an ER Ele in addition will certainly slow it down. Party heals are a big weakness with the ER Elementalist, that's why you don't replace the HB Monk with an Elementalist (unless the Heal Party-based ER Elementalist build works well, which I have not tried). You replace the other Monk. If you're playing in an area where WoH can be used, then I don't quite see the reason why the Elementalist would be weaker, too (you get party heals from Breath of the Great Dwarf, which WoH Monks cannot use as easily due to the 10 energy cost).

The only situation I can see the ER being usefull is in some of the -15 degen areas like in Urgoz. But even then, sprinting up and whacking the plant eliminates that threat in a hurry. Curious, because it seems to me that with party heals being a big weakness of ER Elementalists, it is when you have to cope with -15 degen areas that the Elementalist is weaker.

Snow Bunny · Aug 29, 2008, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

So now we have ...
So use only a single ER Elementalist if possible. It's only impossible to do so when there's hex / condition overload, too (or when your party stands in AoE).

You're losing WoH, which is a strong powerheal. Replacing it with Jamei's Gaze or Infuse isn't nearly as good because of the heal-self ability.

Quote:

Draw Conditions goes some way to replacing Restore Condition, while Divert Hexes can be semi-replaced by Holy Veil. I'll grant that RC > Draw and Divert > Holy Veil, but Divert Hexes especially is energy intensive and it alone cannot keep 8 players clean against hex overload, either.

A DH or RC monk will run circles around some Ele with Draw or Veil, not to mention that in PvE dungeons with ridiculous hex stacks, DH is much stronger.

Quote:

Yes you can. The thing about the ER bar is that every single heal / prot spell is 1/4 second cast. Ether Renewal itself does not take longer to cast than Divert Hexes. Dazed and Migraine are less of a threat to the Elementalist than to a Monk.

You're losing Divine Favor.

Quote:

Party heals are a big weakness with the ER Elementalist, that's why you don't replace the HB Monk with an Elementalist (unless the Heal Party-based ER Elementalist build works well, which I have not tried). You replace the other Monk. If you're playing in an area where WoH can be used, then I don't quite see the reason why the Elementalist would be weaker, too (you get party heals from Breath of the Great Dwarf, which WoH Monks cannot use as easily due to the 10 energy cost).

Properly placed prots from a WoH hybrid will outclass any ER Ele with infinite energy. The only time it won't is when your ele hasn't been doing its job and thus it's relegated to Jamei's Gazing your entire party on a 40/40 set because your party's wiping.

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Curious, because it seems to me that with party heals being a big weakness of ER Elementalists, it is when you have to cope with -15 degen areas that the Elementalist is weaker.

You can spam Heal Party on recharge with no disadvantage to yourself. How is that a weakness?

Here's the difference between our arguments - I've tested the ER in a variety of roles, including the one you're arguing for. Because of the potential strength of the ER buff, I (and my pve teams) have experimented with it extensively. It's not as good, for the reasons I have listed. Get this - a WoH hybrid with a degree of intelligence at the reins will simply outstrip the ER Ele.

Charlotte the Harlot · Aug 29, 2008, 05:53 AM // 05:53

in a 1 monk fow build its certainly not as good just due to the fact that it doesn't do everything as well, but for general pve (vanquishes, hm missions, non-insane dungeons) its very nice. Often when vanquishing you just want to c space crap and having prot bond on your squishy targets and spammed prots make things a lot easier when you play sloppy (like a lot of people including me do unless its a serious zone).

When it comes to the thing about needing 3 enchantments I usually bring an orders nec supplying 1-2 at any time, E Renewal is 1, and the last can be an enchantment you would want to bring anyway. It really doesn't end up eating your bar.

I would definitely take it in a build that would normally have 2 monks that aren't overly specialized for the area.

~Grogs~ · Aug 29, 2008, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Get this - a WoH hybrid with a degree of intelligence at the reins will simply outstrip the ER Ele.

That's the kicker. There is a big difference between a highly coordinated guild group made up of experienced players, and trusting monking to a PuG monk or worse H&H.

ER prot spam works, and I'd rather take an ER Ele into a high end area than a fire ele or a hero monk.

Jeydra · Aug 29, 2008, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Word of Healing is a good heal that also self-targets, but you're missing one big part of Ether Renewal: Ether Renewal heals the caster. This means you can Infuse freely, then cast a few Prots and you'll be healed up again and free to Infuse another time. When you play the ER bar your self-heal is spamming Prots, either on yourself or on others. Ether Renewal's self-heal is a huge advantage over Ether Prodigy based builds, which also give you huge amounts of energy.

I don't see why you say RC Monks run rings around an Elementalist with Draw Conditions. If there are any particularly bad conditions (Blind, Daze, Cripple) Draw Conditions is fast and effective. The other conditions cause degen, which is overcome by party heals. If up against ridiculous hex stacks, Convert Hexes can be used, which removes all hexes (more than Divert). The difference between Convert Hexes / Draw Conditions vs. RC / Divert Hexes is the heals. RC removes conditions while providing healing, which makes it a very energy efficient skill. But efficiency is no concern for ER builds, and Infuse Health allows you to throw out huge heals in very short time. Monks with RC or Divert Hexes are probably still better than Elementalists, but not much more so.

You lose Divine Favour with ER builds, which is unfortunate, but the loss is not crucial. If you need to heal Infuse Health is always available. A Monk under Migraine takes 1.5 seconds to WoH a near-death target; an Elementalist under Migraine takes 0.5 seconds to heal more than WoH. If a Monk is under Migraine and someone is near death, the best he might be able to do is spam RoF; an Elementalist under Migraine can still cast Spirit Bond, Protective Spirit and Infuse. Examples like this really show what Ether Renewal does. Because of the huge amounts of self-renewal you get, you can afford to use highly inefficient skills like Infuse Health and Shield Guardian as well as overprot. It doesn't matter that they are highly inefficient; you can afford the price. Real Monks won't use Spirit Bond if some party member is being hit by one monster only; the effect simply isn't worth the energy investment. But an ER Elementalist would.

You say properly placed Prots from a WoH hybrid will outclass any ER build. But why should they? What single-target Prot is more powerful than both Spirit Bond and Protective Spirit, even if cast at 14 Protection Prayers for the Monk vs. 12 for the Elementalist? The only ones I can think of right now are Seed of Life and Shield of Absorption. SoA is a great skill because it allows the Monk to save their energy, but you can also use Protective Spirit instead to keep the guy from dying - you just have to spend more energy healing him afterwards. But as said many times: energy is simply not relevant to an ER Elementalist. Can you name something that can be protted by some skill a Monk can use, but not Spirit Bond / Protective Spirit? You can even assume both prots will be on the target. Real Monks won't run both Spirit Bond and Protective Spirit, let alone cast both on a single target, but an ER Elementalist would.

Quote:

Here's the difference between our arguments - I've tested the ER in a variety of roles, including the one you're arguing for. Because of the potential strength of the ER buff, I (and my pve teams) have experimented with it extensively. It's not as good, for the reasons I have listed. Get this - a WoH hybrid with a degree of intelligence at the reins will simply outstrip the ER Ele.

Judging from your Jamei's Gaze / Heal Party references, you've been testing the Heal-based version of the ER Elementalist, which is also probably the weaker one, if only because of Heal Party's 2-second cast time. Try the Prot-based version. Run Ensign's bar instead.

Tyla · Aug 29, 2008, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Emu

1. Tyla, an ele is just as capable of wanding as a monk.

When did I say they can't? And since DarkSpirit, if you don't need to prot or even do anything I might aswell not do anything or wand, because the only time spamming prots everywhere would be necesary when there are enemies in Hard Mode with AoE damage, and even then that is quite manageable with your a normal Monk could do the same also.

Quote:

If you have all the prots up that you want up, then you can feel free to wand instead of using the huge time advantage that you have gained. The problem here is if an enemy group splits and goes for 2 squishies, only one can be saved between the casts and aftercasts of multiple skills, but if you used that time to preprot a good portion of your party, at least one of the two targets should already be covered. That puts a traditional prot at 1 dead, and an ER with a full party.

Hey, I guess you said you might aswell do the following, even for the smallest of damage.

Simply put, enemies in PvE don't often enemy swap unless they are moved out by AoE.

Quote:

2. The ER ele can actually contribute a speed advantage. This is simply because it can handle a larger aggro with more prots. Plus if the aggro spills off a hard target, you still have plenty of juice to keep everyone up.

Then my Monk would take Aegis.

Just because you can spam your prots on recharge doesn't mean you can overaggro, because too many enemies will destroy your party regardless.

@Jeydra, on the Migraine topic: If you're under Migraine, it would probably be smarter to remove it or pre-veil against it, which should be on any Monks' skill bar in hex areas. Either that, or Cure Hex which loses the ability of maintaining and removing as soon as it's been put on. And if you're really annoyed with it, Expel Hexes on an off character or Divert Hexes.

Also, SoA is one of the most powerful prots you can use in PvE if you ask me. It negates all damage execpt life stealing to nothing but 0 on use, if your party member is being mobbed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grogs

That's the kicker. There is a big difference between a highly coordinated guild group made up of experienced players, and trusting monking to a PuG monk or worse H&H.

I would rarely trust a PuG Monk and H/H are running Discord. I don't like running enchantment based energy management on my heroes at all.

joshuarodger · Aug 29, 2008, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

So why is the Elementalist healer less effective?

because [[rend ench], [[gaze of fur], [[well of the profane], [[shatter storm], [[lingering curse] and others make the ER Prot Ele completely useless, at least until ER recharges and then depending on the area you may have sometihng like [[migrain], [[power drain], and well, a ton of other interrupts and cast-extending skills to destroy ER.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

My impression of TAM just dropped a notch...You are risking your guild's reputation on this?

TAM doesn't care what your impression of TAM is.

wanding FTW.

Moloch Vein · Aug 29, 2008, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

An orders necromancer should have GDW.

It's not enough with just one copy of GDW on a physically oriented team comprised of only human players. If you claim that your clearing time has been reduced by inclusion of an ER elementalist, maybe that is the problem. A GDW on recharge will only cover 3.33 party members, and you should ideally have all party members on it - or at least six.

Incidentally an Orders necromancer will have problems spamming GDW on recharge unless he runs a pretty specialized build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuarodger

because [[rend ench], [[gaze of fur], [[well of the profane], [[shatter storm], [[lingering curse] and others make the ER Prot Ele completely useless

You are wrong.

Snow Bunny · Aug 29, 2008, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

It's not enough with just one copy of GDW on a physically oriented team comprised of only human players. If you claim that your clearing time has been reduced by inclusion of an ER elementalist, maybe that is the problem. A GDW on recharge will only cover 3.33 party members, and you should ideally have all party members on it - or at least six.

Are you serious?

In a physically oriented party, especially with things like Dervishes and Hammer warriors, you want splinter thrown around. GDW is for assassins, rangers, and Paragons. The party should be killing fast enough so that GDW on 6+ characters is ridiculous.

Quote:

Judging from your Jamei's Gaze / Heal Party references, you've been testing the Heal-based version of the ER Elementalist, which is also probably the weaker one, if only because of Heal Party's 2-second cast time. Try the Prot-based version.

It's actually weaker than the heal based one, FYI.

In addendum. Yes, if you have terrible/hero monks, take the ER elementalist. Otherwise, a competent WoH Hybrid with a good team setup will surpass the uses of the ER elementalist.

If you wish, I can put team builds I have had us run that optimized one monk, team builds where the ER fails because the overall team efficiency is so high.

Tyla · Aug 29, 2008, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

It's not enough with just one copy of GDW on a physically oriented team comprised of only human players. If you claim that your clearing time has been reduced by inclusion of an ER elementalist, maybe that is the problem. A GDW on recharge will only cover 3.33 party members, and you should ideally have all party members on it - or at least six.

Incidentally an Orders necromancer will have problems spamming GDW on recharge unless he runs a pretty specialized build.

[[splinter weapon] would probably also be included and put on a Dervish or anything using AoE based attack. I'd rather take the splash damage here and put GDW on a ranged attacker or someone based on single target damage.

joshuarodger · Aug 29, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

You are wrong.

well, explain to me how the ele will be as effecient without ether renewal. if he gets rended, even with a huge energy pool, he won't be able to just "spam" prot spirit, spirit bond, shield guardian, gdw, as others here have stated is the protocol. 5 seconds after rend, he's out of energy and he definitely won't be able to infuse without the health return from ER.

Moloch Vein · Aug 29, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43

I'm very serious regarding the GDW comment. Yes. Splinter Weapon isn't worth it compared to the benefits of a focused Mark nuker.

Splinter Weapon lasts for a short time and is basically only put on one target at a time while in battle; its effect expires in six seconds under no IAS. GDW lasts for an eternity in comparison. Splinter Weapon has no disabling effect. GDW has an immensely strong one.

Splinter Weapon is a fail skill for an all-human party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuarodger

well, explain to me how the ele will be as effecient without ether renewal. if he gets rended, even with a huge energy pool, he won't be able to just "spam" prot spirit, spirit bond, shield guardian, gdw, as others here have stated is the protocol.

That's right, he won't. He'll just have around 90 energy and on average 10 seconds to use them.

A good healer doesn't stand in a pain well. A good healer stays clear of enemy casters/etc if possible.

You were implying that various enchantment-removal tools present in the enemy party rends the ER ele "useless". That's wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

If you wish, I can put team builds I have had us run that optimized one monk, team builds where the ER fails because the overall team efficiency is so high.

Please do. This is not a jibe. I genuinely believe I can help you with some issues.

joshuarodger · Aug 29, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

That's right, he won't. He'll just have around 90 energy and on average 10 seconds to use them.

A good healer doesn't stand in a pain well. A good healer stays clear of enemy casters/etc if possible.

You were implying that various enchantment-removal tools present in the enemy party rends the ER ele "useless". That's wrong.

this whole thread seems to be about the lack of "good" healers and how an ER spammer can make up for that by spamming high energy prots and heals. if you have a "good" healer, you don't need the ER spammer. that's my point. and if he does get stripped and hexed, he's most likely screwed. this is definitely a possibility in the elite areas, where hexes are a dime a dozen. he's going to have to remain close to the action, hopefully not in the middle of it, and continue to try and prot/heal and when ER is recharged and he has migraine on... well that's quite a few ifs but it is definitely in the realm of possibility. oh and if infuse was part of his bar, there's just no way.